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Just had a talk on telephone with a PI I contacted regarding a post-doc position. He would like me to come over for an interview but he would not cover the cost. Furthermore, I am required to prepare a proposal/research plan. Although it is a well-known institution, and I am interested in their research direction, I still hesitate if I should go for the interview. The reason is not because of the cost, but because that they may invite many candidates (since it costs them nothing but they can get free research idea) so the chance to get the position is relatively low. Is it common in the States that the student should pay their own money for an interview and should give out thier reseach idea to someone who may be not so seriously interested in him? Any advice would be highly appreciated.

Short answer: No.

Use the forum search tool, this topic comes up a lot.

I just finished my postdoc interviews. All 5 of them paid for my traveling expenses (some of which were over $1000, so could get quite expensive). Not only that, but the labs "wined and dined" postdoc candidates, taking me out to multiple dinners and lunches.

Maybe my perspective is off--but the way a lab treats the postdoc applicants could reflect upon funding (or lack of).

Thanks a lot mpb and mel. I agree that the way they treat candidants may reflect their financial situation, or at least how much they are interested in the student. Could you advice me how to answer the question like "do you have any idea about your future research?" Should I tell them some ideas or not? If not, what is the proper way to say no? I guess something like "I do not have any idea" or "I have some ideas but I would not like to tell at this moment" are improper. Thanks again.

"Could you advice me how to answer the question like "do you have any idea about your future research?" Should I tell them some ideas or not? If not, what is the proper way to say no?"


The PI is not wanting to steal your ideas (believe me, they don't need them - they have plenty of ideas as to where to take their work). They are testing you - trying to find out if you have any ideas, any career direction, any goals. A "No" answer would be very bad - it would make you look excedingly stupid. After all, why are you contacting this person, and considering doing training in their lab? What do you want to get out of the experience, scientifically? What kinds of science things are you interested in? What questions would you like to answer? If you don't know why you are interested in this lab, how is the PI to know why they should be interested in you?

This is a two-way relationship; you need to act like it.

Don't go to a lab that won't pay for your interview. This means that they either have no funding, or are not interested enough in you to spend money on you - both very bad things.

I agree with the others that you shouldn't waste your time interviewing there. Any respectable lab will pay for your travel, accomodations, meals, etc. You shouldn't have to spend a dime on your interview trip.

As for the research proposal, I went on my interviews with a blank slate. I interviewed in labs that had good PIs and did interesting work with no real preconceptions of what I would be doing. Nobody asked me for a proposal, and the one lab that asked me directly what I wanted to do, I just gave them a vague answer regarding research paradigms. I got offers everywhere I interviewed. I think it's understood that your postdoc is where you can start from scratch if you wish and all that's expected is you be productive and further the broad research goals of the lab. You're not expected to be an expert before you set foot in the lab, so a research proposal is probably not a realistic expectation for a postdoc candidate.

However, if there is a lab that you REALLY want to work in and they ask for a proposal, I'd do it.

Thanks everybody. I am currently in Europe but I want a post-doc position in USA. I will attend a congress in USA next month, and they invited me for an interview after that. They even do not want to cover the costs within USA. They said it is not common now in USA to pay interview by the PIs. I am required to send them a proposal before that. How about I send them a proposal but tell them I won't come unless the travel and accommodation are paid?

Another thing, I stated very clearly in my application that I am pursuing a post-doc position, but they only talked about a "research fellow" position. Is there any difference? Maybe research fellow is lower paid?

Hi Bo,

I'm from Europe as well and I got a postdoc position in USA 1.5 years ago. This is how it worked for me: I contacted by email about 10 PIs whose work I really liked. 7 of them replied (and only 1 of them had advertised for a position!). 6 of them were attending this big conference in the USA the following month, so I went there (I paid myself obviously) and interviewed with all of them in person. Mind you it was a brief interview and I think they mostly wanted to see that I was real and could speak decent english. 5 of them were interested in hiring me, but it turned out that only 4 had already funded grants for the position. I especially liked 2 labs/PI and I told them up front (mine is a small field, they collaborate and work in the same city!). They decided that in order to get a feeling of where to go I should visit the labs and talk to the people there. They let me go back to Europe and arranged for a 1 week visit (3 days in 1 lab, 3 days in the other). I had to pay upfront for the flight (not the hotel or meals) but by the end of the week I had already received a check for reimbursement.

I recognize that I was probably lucky, but you should not pay for travelling to interviews, even now, even with the current funding situation. If they cannot spare 600$ to fly you in, how will they deal with unexpected expenses during your research? (not to mention salary!)

Best of luck
Rita

This person is either clueless or lying to you. It is certainly common practice, and nearly uniform practice, to pay for post-doc candidates to come to an interview from within the US, and it also not unusual to pay for people to come from outside the US. I worked in a lab where we were interested in a post-doc candidate from England and another who I think was in Sweden, and we flew them both in for interviews. I and others here had numerous post-doc interviews and never paid for one myself.

To summarize, there are 3 reasons for not paying for a candidate to come to an interview.

1. Ego. "I'm the guy who put [insert pathway that 5 people have heard of] on the map. I don't need to pay for candidates to come interview in my lab, I get plenty of applicants as it is."

2. Lack of interest in the candidate. "Well, I'm not really interested in this guy, but if he's willing to pay his own way, I guess it won't hurt me to talk to him."

3. Lack of funding.

All of these reasons spell trouble for a prospective post-doc.

I agree with everything everyone has written about paying your own way for a post-doc interview: it doesn't bode well. If you can schedule an on-site interview at a meeting that you are already attending, maaayyybeee but paying for someone to interview is a relatively small investment compared to salary for 3-5 years.

About ideas: just because they might have their own ideas doesn't mean yours are better and doesn't mean they have already thought about them. Don't sell yourself short. As I have said before; apply free milk and cow principles.

What I would say in these circumstances is:

1. I haven't really used method X that your lab does so well or I haven't really worked with Y model system.
2. I was hoping we might identify a project for me to start with from your current experimental line-up.
3. then we could start to think about experiments that dovetail from this.

I rarely tell others the directions of my thinking or what I have lined up experimentally. My only exception to this is if I see a poster or talk at a meeting in a very preliminary stage and I already have the work done and am ready to submit/have submitted. this gives them a heads up so they can build on to their study for something new. Otherwise, a poor post-doc is grinding away only to find themselves with a duplicate study.

Hi,

I agreed with most of the advice/opinion already given. It never happened to me until the present place called for an interview.
I was told by an office staff point blank, "we don't pay for postdoc's interview travel expenses".
I am in my 1st year of a 2nd postdoc stint in the same institution in Northeast that tried to pull one like this on me.
However, I was told by some colleagues that it was not unusual for this particular institution to ask postdoc candidates to pay their travel expenses.
Infact, I was told that it is not unusual for postdoc doing bench experiments in this particular
institution(because they want PI X's name on their CV) to pay for lab space.

This was what I did when it happened:
(1) I told the staff, buying an airline ticket with about 1 week's notice is beyond my financial capability.
(2) maybe I would have enough funds to buy airline ticket in about 1 month.
I knew that I wasn't going to purchase any ticket if they are not willing to reimburse me.
(3)I asked for a phone interview.

2 days after I gave the above response to the office staff, I was called to arrange for a phone interview.
After the phone interview, I was told by the "Power to Be" that they will pay for my campus visit, if I am still interested in them!
To which I answered, yes.
I am now in this same institution.
My 2 cents.
Michael

"I was told that it is not unusual for postdoc doing bench experiments in this particular
institution(because they want PI X's name on their CV) to pay for lab space. "

see past kelly comments above the value of a big name supervisor

and

about paying for lab space as a post-doc: I'd like to hear a bit more about this one. Please clarify. We shouldn't pass these types of rumors if they aren't true and if someone is in fact doing this, they must have one hell of a CAS problem.

Kelly,

I am not trying to pass any rumor.
Please, read my post again; I gave a detailed information about my own experience.
We all have trusted colleagues on Tenure Track appointments that we turn to for their advice/opinion on issues like this.
Their advice lead to my requesting a phone interview first, instead of defraying the cost of the interview's travel expenses.
I guess, you would only believe me if I can provide names, places, & time; sorry I can't.
Michael

Don't panic I would just like a little more information on this. no names, I'm interested in this issue of charging post-docs for lab space. Never heard of this way to add to the low pay, long hours, lack of control post docs face. This is like the "go get me a stick to hit you with." And frankly I can't figure how that would fly/ out they could make it work from an administrative standpoint.

First, you might misunderstand. Lab space does cost money. Most institutions have a square foot charge. So if you have a big lab then you have to carry fairly big grants to cover the space costs. If you can't, well then they cut back you lab space to the size you can afford. The costs for lab space come out of indirect. But I have never heard of a post-doc having to pay directly for lab space. Has anyone else?

Let's look at the different situations:

a. if someone is a post-doc on an R01; then their salary generates full indirect (whatever the institutional rate is). So by virture of salary coming off the R01 the institution is getting paid for the lab space.

b. F32s don't carry indirect. Certainly no one would make a post-doc come up with something to cover indirect.

c. K awards have a modifed indirect of 8%. So every dollar that is spent on lab supplies or salary, the institution gets 8 cents. 8% is low; most institutions have indirect rates of 50-60%. So it would be good to know if some place is making post-docs make up the difference.

d. foundation grants generally carry 10% indirect so again institutions lose money on these because they don't get their full indirect. again, are palces making post docs with foundation grants make up the difference?

please give me some more details on this.

Thanks a lot. I will not go there for an interview unless they would pay for that or I can not find any other opportunity. My background is not that strong: I am mainly doing clinical study currently, but most opportunities in usa are for bench people. The chance for me is very slim.

Absolutely not.

Stingy PI will harrass you in terms of money while you work there. No future there.