Forum

Hello everyone,

I'm a senior chemistry student at a large public research institution. I have an almost perfect GPA (3.95/4.0) and for the last two years I have worked in a chemical biology lab. My primary experience has been with development of a NMR assay for kinetic chracterization of an enzyme. I have also done a lot of kinetics work, including inhibitor characterization. I have experience with expressing and purifying proteins in both eukaryotic and prokaryotic expression systems and basic site-directed mutagenesis. I love science, and want more than anything to have a successful career in a scientific discipline.

After reading this message board, you guys have terrified me to the point that I am thinking about possible alternate careers(despite being in my last year of undergrad!). I have applied to graduate school at several top institutions and feel that I have a competitive chance of getting in. I will have the Summer of 2006 off right now, and want to know if it would be prudent to try and find an internship at a biotech/pharmaceutical company or stick to the academic research. I don't care very much whether my ultimate career ends up in industry/government/academia, I just want to do science, have a family and live an enjoyable life.

If the internship is a good idea, can you guys point me in the direction of the types of companies where I might have a chance of getting a summer position. I also have some limited experience with programming (1 year of java programming classes).

Thank you all for the information you post here. At my institution(including me) there is never any talk of career development for undergraduates in chemistry.

-Will

Sorry for the typo in the heading (wishes there was an edit post/preview function on this board!)

-Will

A lot of the problems discussed on this board are relative to life science .
Chemists may not have so so many problems with over production of Phds..
But you should probably approach the professors you know directly to get a better feel of that field.

Hello Will,

please don't be to discouraged by this board. Most of the complains found here apply to life sciences. I'm a life scientist myself so I can't give you an outlook for career prospects in the chemical sector, but my general impression is that it is much more favorable than in the life science sector.

However do consider other career alternatives - don't be blinded by admission offers to prestigous school and/or a drive to make your supporting undergraduate professors happy. This is your life and commiting to graduate school is a big decision.

Maybe you would be happier with a professional degree? MD JD or PhmD? Think seriously about your future and what's most important to you - financial stability and the prospects of starting and supporting a family or taking the risky way and choosing a scientific career.

Good luck with the decision - don't hurry it!

Best,

Karl

There's a lot of useful information about science careers on the web - let me recommend to you three essential ones:

Not Your Father's Postdoc by Benderly B..something (published in this mag some time ago)

Thanks for the postdoc bargain by Richard Freeman [a Harvard econ prof] (dito but also in a big useful special adressing the postdoc production in the science careers journal)

Supply and Demand somewhere in Science some time aga by Donal O'Kennedy Science Editor

and finally Don't become a Scientist by Prof. Katz (kind or weird and over the top but kind of hit the nail on the head)

I recommend you reading all this articles before embarking on another 5-7 years of grad school and 4-5 years of postdoc.

Good Luck!

Karl

I was a chemist with emphasis in physical chemistry; my friends that remained in chemistry tell me it is worse in terms of jobs in the physical science than biological sciences. This is likely because biomedical can go into undergraduate and medical schools for academics and there are more biotech opportunities.

One of my best friends took his "first" job with a drug company with the idea of moving on and never has been able to get out of MI (he was analytical). Another friend of mine was in organic and he has bounced around thru a couple of high profile spice making companies and scent making companies. About the only place worse in terms of jobs in bio- or physical science is the humanities.

No career is a sure thing but in my opinion in a PhD of any type there is more risk, longer time in training and less assurance of anything. There are better degrees in terms of time to real job and real life.

I really don't advocate people doing PhD UNTIL we do significant reform on the training mechanism. That's what will send the message: when people recognize that it is sufficiently exploitative that we must refuse to participate.

This is why I do not take graduate students. Noncompliance works wonders.

My PhD is in enzymology. I did kinetic studies of enzymes with UV/Vis, rapid kinetics, fluorescence and NMR spectroscopy. Enzymologists are generally considered to be biochemists, not chemists. I did relaxation and steady state kinetics. But you probably only have done steady state kinetics because you are using NMR.

If you are interested in your current enzymology research, I suggest you to find a lab that does high throughput enzyme screening or protein engineering.

An undergraduate student these days should not go to graduate school unless they really have a love and passion for a subject. Don't go if you are not sure if you want to get a PhD or not.

Will said, "Sorry for the typo in the heading (wishes there was an edit post/preview function on this board!)"

Will, of course there is. You have to be a registered user to use it. Often, people who are unregistered are just floating through. Generally they don't have the incentive to sign up because they only want a question or two answered, and then they are gone. However, it only takes about 15-30 seconds, and you can remain anonymous. You are allowed to put up your own personal page, photos, details, etc, in order for others to give you guidance that is more meaningful because they know a bit more about you. Please, sign up. Totally confidential, and you can edit your posts!

Dave Jensen, Moderator

All of the responses are about as morbid as I imagined they would be. Depressing state of affairs...

-Will(now registered)

It doesn't have to be depressing Will. You are on the ball by seeking input early.

Now, you can do something to improve your situation, your personal opportunities. I think before one can plan you have to have a grasp of reality. You have started that planning.

1. you know what you want. A lot of people float into graduate school as a default option with the idea that after PhD they'll just get a faculty job. You have loosely defined what you want from your life: you want to do science, you want to have a life. now you need to craft a realistic plan to get you there.

2. you are thinking already about nonlinear graduate experiences like an internship. That's good. Maybe you should think about a year long internship (paid of course) to really consider a career development plan.

a. you should talk to people in academics
b. you should talk to people in industry
c. you should talk to people in all types of career options for post-PhD

The goals is to get an idea about what type of graduate training will make you most competitive for jobS, repeat JOBS in the least amount of time. Try to craft a plan that gives you several long term options that include several "off ramps" along the way. An off ramp is a career option that you could out quickly into action if you decided to stop your training and get a job within 6 months to 1 year. For example, while doing a PhD you might start writing articles for lay press, go visit the public communication office for your institution. Write a couple of press releases with someone (you have the science background that most of these folks don't). This allows you to build a writing portfolio and get a reference if you decide right after PhD you don't want to do post-doc. Go hang out a bit with institutional counsel (you might decide to go to law school). Go visit sponsored programs, you might become a grants administrator. Start building a mutli-option PhD program. Get a semester of teaching experience at a local community college. give a few talks to community groups (maybe you will do non-profit work post PhD).

In short, do your very own personal gradudate training revolution. Incorporate activities and aspects into your graduate experience that are non-standard. Don't expect alot of support for this but do it any way. Get youtself trained for multiple career paths so that when one falls through you can transition into a second.

Don't go in with the goal of getting a PhD; that is too short-term of a career goal. Get a three tined career plan in place for the entire interval of your PhD experience.

Will,

While the path might seem murky, I encourage you to do it if you are serious about it. Kelly is right - you now have a realistic view and can be proactive in your education rather than retroactive (you don't want to one day say "I wish I would have known..."). I think her advice about a multi-option graduate education is PERFECT. Do not go into graduate education expecting a PhD to lead to a tenure-track faculty position, but if that is what you want to do, then shoot for it! I think the best thing you can do at this point is to talk with people (in academia, industry, etc) and start networking. You'd be surprised who might remember you down the line, especially if they sense enthusiasm.

Good luck to you! You are on the right track.

Hi Will,

I'm an organic/medicinal chemist. Don't let everyone scare you... chemistry is still pretty lively as a field. It really depends on what you want to do. Although big pharma is entering a rough period, it is still a pretty robust area.

As far as what everyone has said about grad school, I agree... you have to be really sure about something before you commit yourself to 6 years for a PhD and 2 or more years for a postdoc. I once saw a defense entitled, "The Total Synthesis of _____: Or, How I Spent My Twenties". In my own case, I started graduate school without knowing what I wanted to do, and I ended up leaving school after less than two years. It wasn't the end of the world and it certainly wasn't a waste of time, but things could have worked out a little differently if I had been better prepared.

It sounds like you have a lot of great experience just as an undergrad, and that's great! It will definitely help. But it also sounds like it might be good for you to be exposed to the industrial side as well. As far as internships, start looking at the websites of any company that you're interested in. My employer and my friends' employers all list their internships in the career area of their websites. Many of them will allow you to register for e-mail updates, so that if the positions aren't listed yet you can receive notification when they are posted.

Let us know how it goes. Good luck!

Stephanie

Hi Will,

I think your idea of an internship is a great one. I did a couple as an undergrad and it really helped me CHOOSE to do a PhD rather than just seeing it as the next option.
Glaxo Smithkline have undergrad programs
http://www.gsk.com/careers/us-university/university_us_summer.htm
As do Genetech and probably a number of other Pharma companies.
Try looking at the "Careers" section on their websites.

Best of luck,

Caroline